|
 |
|
|
Forum
|
|
|
|
|
 | | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
 | | |
|
|
| Kumail |
 |
Joined: 06/12/2009
Posts: 18
|
|
|
Only Fear Allah (swt) wrote:
Do you also believe that the Prophet (pbuh) is made of light (noor) ? (Kumail)
----------------
since you have not made an attempt to answer the post and only asked a question therefore i will also ask you a question.
the following hadith has been reported in many diferent words and chains but i will here only present it as Imam Ibn hajar al-asqalani sanctions it.
من طريق بديل بن ميسرة عن عبد الله بن شقيق عن ميسرة الفجر قال قلت يا رسول الله متى كنت نبيا قال وآدم بين الروح والجسد وهذا سند قوي
وأخرجه من طريق أخرى عن حماد فقال عبد الله بن شقيق عن رجل قال قلت يا رسول الله وأخرجه أحمد من هذا الوجه وسنده صحيح .
When Rasul Allah(s) was enquired, when did you become a Prophet, He(s) replied that I(s) was a Prophet when Adam(a) was between the stages of soul and body.
al-asqalani says that this has a strong chain. futhermore imam al-asqalani says that this has also been reported from another chain by Imam Ahmed and it also has 'sahih' chain of reporters.
so, i would like to ask you dear God-feraing brother, what was the composition of the Prophet(s) when Adam(a) hadnt been created because first human being was hazrat Adam(a) and Rasul Allah(s) was from his off spring. here the Noble Messenger(s) is saying that I was a Prophet(s) before the creation of Adam(a). if you say that He(s) was a Prophet(s) in the plans of God then Adam(a) was also in the plans of God hence making the statement nonsense.
please ponder and reply.
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Sunni Lion |
|
Joined: 04/12/2009
Posts: 19
|
|
|
Salam,
Mr Kumail, firstly we have no doubts that the Prophet was made of light and he came to this world as Human. But the reality being Noor and the attribute being a human.
Mr Kumail I want you to understand and ask yourself some questions. There are 3 types of catogeries that said Prophet Muhammed SAW is Human which is God, Kafir,and Munafiq. Kumail you are not God as there is only one God and he is the creator of everything and he can address anyone how he likes. The second being Munafiq which is a big Kafir, you tell me if you are in this category or thirdly being a kafir, you tell me if this fits you. My point here is that no one other than these category has called Muhammed PBUH as a normal Basher. Pls prove to me any shabi- e-rasool or tabieen calling the prophet a basher.
Kumail secondly do you ever address yourself as human? the answer will be no but if it was yes people will think your mad. If you are not Human then what are you. Lets think logic. When the prophet was showing all kinds of miracles people start questioning him that you are telling us our lord is Allah SWT but you are showing all the miracles what God can do such as splitting the moon into 2, reviving the dead to alive, bringing the moon back for Moula Ali and so many other miracle. People questioned him wether he is the lord thats when the Human word came to existance.
Let s talk - Like you does not mean I am the same as you
Like you - dog eats sleeps, walks, crys like you but does not mean you are like the dog
Even the Prophet have said he is like us but still he is not like us. Just how much difference we are to the Dog. Much more we are different to the Holy Prophet.
Kumail I hope this logic reasoning above will show you the light. As mentioned above the Holy Prophet SAW reality is Noor (light) and the attributes is Human.
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Kumail |
|
Joined: 06/12/2009
Posts: 18
|
|
|
astaghfirullah, brother faruq qadri sahib, you have serious comprehension problem. have you even read what i am saying?
only people according to Qur'an al-Karim to have called Rasul Allah(s) as a man like them are namrud, firaun, abu jahl etc. please re-read my first post and see that it is addressed to out wahabi brothers that they are wrong in light of Qur'an and sahi hadith that Rasul Allah(s) is like us.
secondly, one of the brothers questioned me that is the Noble Prophet(s) made out of noor? then i replied to him that what do you say about the sahih hadith; the two different chains have been categorised as strong and sahih respectively by imam ibn hajar asqalani...the hadith says that huzur e Akram(s) says that I(s) was a Prophet before the creation of Adam(a)...in light of this' I asked the question that given this hadith is vouched as sahih by ibn hajr asqalani(the hadith imam) then what was the nature and composition of the Prophet(s) before the creation of Adam(a) because Adam(a) was the first human being. therefore, it stands to reason and rules of logic that pre-existence of OUR beloved Rasul(S) was not in human 'form' because Adam(a) had not been created yet. therefore, what was that substance? the answer is Noor!
faruq qadri, do wird of darud sharif to calm yourself down and then read with love and you will find that we are in the same camp!!
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| fullmoon |
|
Joined: 29/11/2009
Posts: 22
|
|
|
Kumail wrote:
|
Answer from Quran and Sunna as requested:
Claim: It is disrespectful and demeaning to call Rahmat ul Aalameen(S) as a man like us.
The wahabis present the following ayaah to suggest that He(S) is a man like us: 'say: i am a man(bashar) like you, it is revealed(WAHI) to me that your god is One God'.(41:6)
This is one ayaah from the Quran and the differentia of revelation(wahi) would have been enough for its sincere understanding, nevertheless, topical exegesis(tafseer mauzoey) means to read all the ayaat of the Quran and sahih hadith about a single concept and then make a judgement.
Evidence:
first of all ayaah is saying i'm like you and NOT you are like me! Imam Razi(d.606) in tafsir kabir says "Allah(S) commanded the Prophet(S) to set an example for modesty and humility (tawazo) that is the purpose of the ayaah".
secondly, the reason for this is that 'your god is One God' this ayah came to SAVE tawhid and not to demean Prophethood because look, Quran says that jews called Uzair(A) son of God (9:30), why because He performed miracles, which they could not comprehend. Imagine the untold miracles Rasul Allah(S) performed so there was a danger that these people would call him God so Allah(S) revealed the ayaah with Your God is One at the end of it.
thirdly, first person to focus upon Prophets being bashar was the shaytan himself, more details in the Quran. Remember, we are looking at all ayaat on 'Misl'(likeness) and 'Bashr'(Man like us).
Allah(S) in the Quran mentions and quotes kuffar saying to the Prophets(A) you are a man like us to deny their Prophethood, to quote just three out of many:
Namrood and company says to Ibraheem(A)you are a man(bashar) like(misl) us. (11:27)
Firaun and company says to Moosa(A) you are a man(bashar) like(misl) us.(26:186)
Abu Jahal and co. says to Mohammed Mustafa(S): you are a man(bashar) like(misl) us.
Allah(S) in these ayaat is not praising namrood, firaun and abu jahal but rather condemning their aqeedah.
O wahabiyoon, if He(S) is a bashar like you then why send lanat(curse) on firaun, namrood and abu jahal? their aqeedah is identical to yours. And it is in the Quran as well. And surely Allah(S) does not say things without it becoming aqeedah and Allah(S) is not quoting these people so we could do the same?
fourthly, Allah subhan wa Taalah says: every animal on earth or in the sky, who are umma like(amsaal:plural of misl) you.(6:38). Therefore if animals are our misl as Allah(S) is saying then why not say that you are like pigs and pigs are like you?
Fifthly, although there are many more ayaat like this but this much is sufficient for now. in hadith literature also you will find that Rahmat al-Aalameen(S) frequently said that you are NOT like me, with the word misl, for example:
sahih bukhari and tirmazi report that:indeed, you are not like me(misl).'inni lasto misslokum'.
again in bukhari, muslim and abu daood: you are not like me'ayyokum missli'
khasais e kubra of Nasai and tirmazi: imam Ali(A) says there is no one like Mohammed Mustafa(S)
again in Bukhari and muslim:i am not like you, i am given food and water. 'inni lasto misslokum inni ut-ema wa usqa'
these are just a sample out of many more similar ahadith.
all ayaat and ahadith contain word misl(like) and all ayaat contain words bashar and misl.
therefore when you consider the idea in light of topical exegesis i.e. all ayaat and hadith about one concept together then you get the true meaning of likeness and bashar.
finally, not a single scholar of ahle sunna from the classical age called the Prophet(S) a man like us, instead, you will find the opposite.
Ya Imam ALi Bin Musa al-Reza(a).
|
Salam Kumail
Mashallah nice read, I think it bcomes evident to one when speaking with the salafi & wahabi et al brethren that they take a literalist aproach to everything and do not have the comprehension to undertand the word "context".
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Ghulam_e_Meeran |
|
 |
Joined: 29/11/2009
Posts: 89
|
|
|
Farooq Qadri wrote:
Salam,
Mr Kumail, firstly we have no doubts that the Prophet was made of light and he came to this world as Human. But the reality being Noor and the attribute being a human.
Mr Kumail I want you to understand and ask yourself some questions. There are 3 types of catogeries that said Prophet Muhammed SAW is Human which is God, Kafir,and Munafiq. Kumail you are not God as there is only one God and he is the creator of everything and he can address anyone how he likes. The second being Munafiq which is a big Kafir, you tell me if you are in this category or thirdly being a kafir, you tell me if this fits you. My point here is that no one other than these category has called Muhammed PBUH as a normal Basher. Pls prove to me any shabi- e-rasool or tabieen calling the prophet a basher.
Kumail secondly do you ever address yourself as human? the answer will be no but if it was yes people will think your mad. If you are not Human then what are you. Lets think logic. When the prophet was showing all kinds of miracles people start questioning him that you are telling us our lord is Allah SWT but you are showing all the miracles what God can do such as splitting the moon into 2, reviving the dead to alive, bringing the moon back for Moula Ali and so many other miracle. People questioned him wether he is the lord thats when the Human word came to existance.
Let s talk - Like you does not mean I am the same as you
Like you - dog eats sleeps, walks, crys like you but does not mean you are like the dog
Even the Prophet have said he is like us but still he is not like us. Just how much difference we are to the Dog. Much more we are different to the Holy Prophet.
Kumail I hope this logic reasoning above will show you the light. As mentioned above the Holy Prophet SAW reality is Noor (light) and the attributes is Human.
Salaam,
Erm...I think the above post shows us a classic case of "friendly fire" shall we say...!!!
May The Peace Of Allah (swt) Be Upon Sayyiddina Muhammad His Family, His Companions and Those Who Follow Them Until The Day Of Judgement. Wasalaam Ghulam e Meeran Qadri Jilani
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Qadri Blessed |
 |
 |
Joined: 29/11/2009
Posts: 145
|
|
|
Ghulam_e_Meeran wrote:
Farooq Qadri wrote:
Salam,
Mr Kumail, firstly we have no doubts that the Prophet was made of light and he came to this world as Human. But the reality being Noor and the attribute being a human.
Mr Kumail I want you to understand and ask yourself some questions. There are 3 types of catogeries that said Prophet Muhammed SAW is Human which is God, Kafir,and Munafiq. Kumail you are not God as there is only one God and he is the creator of everything and he can address anyone how he likes. The second being Munafiq which is a big Kafir, you tell me if you are in this category or thirdly being a kafir, you tell me if this fits you. My point here is that no one other than these category has called Muhammed PBUH as a normal Basher. Pls prove to me any shabi- e-rasool or tabieen calling the prophet a basher.
Kumail secondly do you ever address yourself as human? the answer will be no but if it was yes people will think your mad. If you are not Human then what are you. Lets think logic. When the prophet was showing all kinds of miracles people start questioning him that you are telling us our lord is Allah SWT but you are showing all the miracles what God can do such as splitting the moon into 2, reviving the dead to alive, bringing the moon back for Moula Ali and so many other miracle. People questioned him wether he is the lord thats when the Human word came to existance.
Let s talk - Like you does not mean I am the same as you
Like you - dog eats sleeps, walks, crys like you but does not mean you are like the dog
Even the Prophet have said he is like us but still he is not like us. Just how much difference we are to the Dog. Much more we are different to the Holy Prophet.
Kumail I hope this logic reasoning above will show you the light. As mentioned above the Holy Prophet SAW reality is Noor (light) and the attributes is Human.
Salaam,
Erm...I think the above post shows us a classic case of "friendly fire" shall we say...!!!
I would agree Ghulam.
It is the duty of Muslims to love and respect the Family of Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) because the Holy Prophet has said in a hadith, “When I am loved, then my family members, whom I love should also be loved.” (Tirmidhi)
|
|
|
|
| |
| | |
| | |
| | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Policy
|
|
 |
|
For the benefit of the community, please read and observe the terms and conditions found in our 'Terms and Conditions' section of the site (paying particular attention to 'Use of Communcation Services'), in addition to the following guidelines:
1. No Advertising. This includes promotion of commercial and non-commercial products or services which are not directly related to SunnisOnline.
2. No posting of copyrighted content without the express permission of the copyright holder.
3. No Profanity, Racism, or Prejudice.
4. Site Moderators have the final word on approving/removing a thread or post or comment.
5. English language posting only, please.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|