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 03/12/2009 18:08
 
Ghulam_e_Meeran
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 Modified By Ghulam_e_Meeran on 04/12/2009 18:27:51

She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-fearing. (18) He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son. (19)

قَالَتۡ إِنِّىٓ أَعُوذُ بِٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ مِنكَ إِن كُنتَ تَقِيًّ۬ا (١٨) قَالَ إِنَّمَآ أَنَا۟ رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلَـٰمً۬ا زَڪِيًّ۬ا (١٩)

Salaam,

In the above we see verses Surah Maryam from the Holy Quran giving an account of the birth of Sayyiddina Isa (a.s). The verse number 19 explains how Sayyiddina Jibreel (a.s) identified himself to Sayyidah Maryam (a.s) and what his purpose was. He said "I am a messenger of your Lord, that I may bestow on you a faultless son"

The reason I began this thread was because as we all aware from many different experiences, there seems to be a group from amongst the Muslims who do not believe that Ghair Allah are able to help. Many of our Muslims lands are full of dargahs/ziyarahs/blessed shrines etc. These are the resting places of the pious, the Prophets (a.s) and the Awliya of Allah. Many of our brethren flock to these places in order to seek blessings or help or Intercession by calling Allah (swt) and using these Pious men and Women of Allah (swt) as Intermediaries. One common example which can be found in many parts of the sub continent is when folk who have no children visit these shrines and ask Allah (swt) to bestow on them pious off spring. They do this because they believe in the intercession of the Awliya. So in the light of the above verse why do people still raise the objection that ghaor Allah cannot give? The verse begs a question. Why did he say "I" may bestow on you a pure son. Surely it is Allah (swt) who gives offspring. The normal rhetoric we come across is "no ghair Allah can give", "its shirk to believe otherwise" or "the Awliya have no power to give". The verse mentioned proves otherwise.

I will inshallah post other verses and various ahadeeth which nullify arguments put forward by the "new lot".

All Praise Is Due To Allah, The Lord Of The Worlds. The Greatest Blessings And Peace Be Upon Sayyiddinna Muhammad, His Family, His Companions and All Those Who Follow Them Till The Day Of Judgement.

May The Peace Of Allah (swt) Be Upon Sayyiddina Muhammad His Family, His Companions and Those Who Follow Them Until The Day Of Judgement. Wasalaam Ghulam e Meeran Qadri Jilani
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 05/12/2009 21:20
 
Maximus
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What your sayin is that there are others that can help other than Allah? Then why did Allah say in surah Fatiha verse 5, إِيَّاكَ نَعۡبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسۡتَعِينُ

'Thee alone we worship and thee alone we ask for help'

I think this verse is very clear that we can only ask for help from Allah. Could you shed a bit more light on your argument
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 06/12/2009 06:19
 
Kumail
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 Modified By Kumail on 06/12/2009 00:22:18

this verse is an example of iltifaat in rhetorical sciences of arabic language. but simply, lets keep the verse general without reconciling it with the rest of the noble Qur'an. what do we have here?

you alone we ask for help! now, this would be categoric and absolute; which means that we should only ask Allah for help. so do we? what about when you ask others for help in your daily life? wouldnt that act contradict with this verse?

you can reply that, No!, it doesnt include others because the generality of this verse does not affect asking help from others but rather this kind of help is 'exempt' from the generality of this verse.

now, i would ask my dear brother maximus, what is your evidence? the point is that in Quran you will find ambiguity in one place and then clarity of the same point in other places. one has to look at the whole rather than part to clearly undertstand the intended meaning of the Speaker i.e. God almighty.....

these are just some thoughts and i am sure brother GM, would sufficently source your query.
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 06/12/2009 11:35
 
Maximus
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Posts: 85

Salaam

So what your saying is I cannot look at this verse on a stand alone basis but rather i need to reconcile all affiliated verses and then base a conclusion? How is one meant to know there is another verse that clarifies a certain issue i.e. like the one Ghulam has raised?

Brother give me some more information on this Iltifaat/rhetoric science? As far as I am concerned asking for help from anyone other than Allah is committing an act of shirk. I am only looking at this from a Quran and Sunnah perspective. The following hadith also justifies my argument that we should only ask for help from Allah.

The Messenger of Allaah (Sallalahu Alayhee Was-Sallam) said to Ibn Abbaas, “....When you ask for anything then ask Allaah only, if you need help then seek it from Allaah, and know that if all the people gathered and intended to harm you then they cannot do so except that which Allaah has destined for you....”

Musnad Ahmad (1/293, 303, 307), Mishkaat (2/453), Tirmidhee (2/84), Saheeh Sunan Tirmidhee (2/609-610 no.2516), Mishkaat al-Masabeeh (no.5302), Musnad Abu Ya'ala (2/665), Mustadrak al-Haakim (3/541-542), Kitaab as-Sunnah Dhilaal al-Jannah Fee Takhreej as-Sunnah (no's 316-318), Hidaayah tur-Ruwaah Ilaa Takhreej Ahadeeth al-Masabeeh Wa Mishkaat (5/56 no.5232) of Haafidh Ibn Hajr, Takhreej by Allaamah Muhaddith al-Albaanee with checking of Shaikh Alee Hasan ibn Abdul Hameed al-Halabee, al-Mu'ajam al-Kabeer (11/11416, 11243) of Imaam Tabaraanee, al-Mukhtarah (59/199/1) and (62/199/2) of Haafidh Dhiyaa, Ibn as-Sunnee in al-Amal al-Yaum Wal-Laylah (1/136 no.419), ash-Sharee'ah (p.198) of Imaam Aa'jurree and Abu Nuaym in Hilyah (1/314).

Imaam Tirmidhee said the hadeeth is Hasan-Saheeh. Imaam al-Albaanee also authenticated it.

We are muslims lets follow the Quran and Sunnah strictly. I think Ghulam needs to read my evidences and decide what is right for himself

Jazaakallah
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